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  • ASC follow-up
  • IdeaWave updates
  • Canadians for a reasonable, competitive and secure internet - KC
  • Broadband testing tool - CP
  • invite to come up to makerspace for annual general meeting on Saturday at noon - learn to weld, play with the laser cutter, then when done with the machines drink homebrew! Directions on makerspace.ca(sorry, I can't actually make it to the meeting tonight, though. Derek)

Broadband testing tool - CP[edit]

  • Chris & Will discussed the tool.

ASC follow-up[edit]

  • GetOnTheDoc bus won. Was a good meeting last week.
  • electoral reform
    • first one was using the fun clickers
    • last week's was instant run off
    • non-instant runoff
    • different models resulted in different winners.
    • STV - shot down recently province-wide.
    • 5 pts, 4 pts, 3 pts, etc. add & winner up. But may not be linear in the judge's mind.
    • repeated lowest out - but takes a while.
  • next meeting is the last Wednesday of March
  • Every 2 months. Get the $50 in in order to have time to do all the things. Need date at least a month out.
    • If get 20 people sooner, then is a month from that date. Could be more frequent if gets going. Was standing room only last time.
  • Latest - last wkd of March. Wants money before EO this month.
  • banker@awesomeshitclub.com; awesomeshit@awesomeshitclub.com can (re)submit.
  • 1st one - only 2-3 solid ideas. This one 4-5 solid.
  • GotOnTheDoc will have awesomeshitclub right on the outside of the bus.
  • awesome foundation in california. Now in a dozen places in NA. Latest is in Toronto. More strict model 10 at 100 each.

Ours is more fun. Physical forum. We were able to hook up some ideas with useful connections instead of just awarding our cash.

IdeaWave updates[edit]

  • marketing cards logo on one side QR code on the other side.
    • 500 made. put 'em in strange places.
  • still accepting talks - until 50 are published. Only 21 so far.
  • scholarships for students - $500. 2 right now. Have enough $ for 5.
  • less than 100 tickets left for sale.
  • wash dc someone coming. 2 from ontario.
    • dc - 1x/wk writes a song in her kitchen ideawave.ca has link to her.
  • Talks about DOING something as opposed to blah blah blah
  • No PR talks unless swag

Canadians for a reasonable, competitive and secure internet[edit]

  • Kris laid out the issues.
    • Usage-based billing; Causes a problem for example for the competitive DSL providers in Ontario eg techsavvy. techsavvy says no caps. But the Bell subsidiary (bellsympatico) is capping it. 25 vs 200 g. Bell started throttling techsavvy.
    • CRTC came out & said will allow usage-based billing. At rate x - only 25G.
    • Kills competition says Kris. Will says no, not really. Last mile out to customer - copper to dslam in closet to bell network to provider eg techssavvy. Charging just over the last bit. Which Bell doesn't have to pay for.
    • Also mandated that Bell must allow alternative dslam providers so long as room in closet. Giant capital cost. Kris did use a non-capped, no port-restricted ISP in Ottawa. Head of provider did not pay them 'cause not getting what he'd paid for.
    • Stifles netflix and streaming video. $2/gig. Cheaper to buy an SSD, copy data on to it, mail it, and throw away. Yikes!
    • Providers over here in B.C. have taken as signal to follow this lead. Now telus, etc. bandwidth caps being enforced. Shaw income going up.
    • Chris says is supposed to reduce congestion. However Shaw looking at it as a way to generate revenue.
    • Dirty pool as major providers are also often content providers. For example, Bell IPTV included in basic option vs pay extra for netflix.
    • user-based billing at stopthemeter.ca - over 200K Canadians signed on.
    • most companies pay for bandwidth. Free peering agreement. Exchange of service just not dollars.
    • Legal struggle between Level 3 & netflix can provide some insight. Some discussion of if this case is broadly relevant or an anomaly or ? (Acronym note: Content Distribution Network = CDN.)
    • question of if there really is a bandwidth constraint - is in last mile in some places in the country
  • Kris brought the discussion back to Net Neutrality. Privacy concerns. Online banking & such do use HTTPS, but most of internet traffic uses HTTP. Most cleartext over the internet. Techies in the field understand the issues, but the general public often does not know what is going on behind the scenes to make the internet work the way it does and where problems might lie.
  • Kris thought it would be a good idea to start a new group to help keep up the momentum generated from the UBB issue.
    • He has a good network - can interconnect silos of interested individuals.
    • General mission statement - Canadians for a reasonable, competitive, and secure internet. Does not exist today. Kevin points out that "Reasonable" is a loaded word with the telecoms. Kris says yes, the lawyers he knows says it is loaded as well. Kris using it for non-techies - opens the question. It's just a placeholder. Why isn't it "reasonable"? Will suggests 'secure' is not a hill worth dying on - ie not winnable. 'Reasonable' as in price and availability.
    • Kris - has a select group to start out. Tiered thing - core group advisors board, then other folks as well.
    • Kris thinks if more regular users know what's going on, then they will care more.
    • Kris: conference call next week his new group to determine what want to do, what to contribute. Set up Wordpress site & have industry-known folks participate.
      • Kevin - list of folks may already be known - some listserv in academia.
    • Kevin says SaveOurNet is a huge coalition; might be a good group to either work with or align with. They came up with the 200K signees. Has also resulted in action at the government level. Maybe no need for a new group.
      • Kris says he hasn't followed it much. But he has contacted the SaveOurNet fellow Steve. Maybe could be a really good collaboration.
      • Kevin notes that OpenMedia has many aspects, not all we might want to participate in.
    • Chris says, who works with Steve at SON, depends on tools. Some technical deficiencies accepted in order to reach a certain audience. SON has public front-facing focus.
    • Lisa suggests maybe Kris's group could be the experts backing up the front-facing SON group.
    • Maybe the need, says Will, is for a group that does audits. *** Kevin says asking Measurement Canada (does eg liters of gas) - maybe expand their role to internet bandwidth.
      • Power parallel? Will asks who determining kilowatt hour? Not known.
      • Competition Bureau also could have a role. But they only release data when all completed. Similar to Privacy Commissioner - also can't tell until completed - but they only tell the individual at the end. Is a complaints process.
        • Kevin working it since 2006 - no action from the competition bureau.
        • Kris good idea have the tool automatically email the complaint if service is not provided as advertised. Will suggests maybe have a Facebook app do it.
    • question of how to file a complaint - do you need a lawyer?
      • Industry Canada has done some of that - has consultations out. Request comments esp wrt digital economy. But doesn't mobilize people. People usually motivated only when it gets to "will my bill go up?" Then needs to be explained very clearly.
  • UBB only matters for maybe 6% of the market. But imposes a business model. Only an issue really in Ontario right now.
  • Will is a Board Member of the Net In Situ Society. Free wifi across the city. Node in market square now. Looking to put in more. Not an ISP. Don't control any bandwidth. Find businesses where folks across the street hang out and drink coffee. Then the biz can buy access point and bandwidth. NISS loads some firmware. Captive portal local biz advertising. We get then maybe ubiquitous wifi around the city. Would ISPs try to chase down all the local businesses via Terms of Service? Maybe get the ISPs themselves to work it out. First go to an ISP to give an exclusive to provide the service.
    • Roofnet suggests Kevin. Commodity routers - some protocol. High gain antennaes on commodity routers on wireless backbone.
    • No upstream unfortunately in Victoria - no PoP. In Vancouver can go to Pier1 and have lots of backbone for upstream. Teracespan runs asphalt cutter & lays fiber. Multiple fibers going wherever so not a problem if cut with a backhoe. Hooks up finally to the internet through some other org eg Pier1. ** Carrier hotel - gov't sponsored bldg usually - peering point for major networks. All come into one PoP. Can put n/w equipment - connect to multiple ones. But we don't have that in Victoria.
  • TILMA is in the way of the gov't just investing in a PoP as public works - economic rights of investors interfered with. City-wide wifi would run into this problem.
  • Chris: Canadians for Competitive Contemporary Internet Service - CCCIS
  • Kris: Tech Crunch - infographic - buy SSD HD for $180, send through Canada post, copy over the info, toss the HD. Image has gotten a lot of coverage. Need to make it more simple for people to understand. Kevin asks - how do this really? Kris - use infographics and start - Oatmeal business model.
  • Rob said dominant thing he picked up was that he needs a good graphic for the overall internet.
    • Kris - analogy is flying. The oligarchy of 5 IPSs - don't peer with each other for various reasons. Usually they peer with American companies. Kris used traceroute tool & could see that traffic ran through 3 American states to get to his neighbor. This was in Ontario. (Not like this in BC says Will.)
    • a couple of ISPs have the railroad line cable. Shaw bought the company that bought the company that bought old Phonola infrastructure.
    • Layers would be good - physical model first, then Billing, Logical (see better layout description below)
        • (Acronym note: AS# = numbers of the actual peers)
    • at each layer, use the metaphors and lay out the issues.
    • catch is that a good map is a career: network engineering.
    • problem is when you distill too far you get pushback as missing essential details. E.g. OpenMedia.
    • at each entry point, Chris suggests, have little synopses about the issues at that level. Click here to understand more. Then differing levels of explanation.
      • For the definitive Peering article - see ArsTechnica - 9 pages. Readable. (You won't find a detail like DSlam on that.)
    • So infographic good and follow-through to detail even more.
  • Rob says model is HowStuffWorks - between little kids and super-technical people. Kevin points out too hard to do all at once. Not really layered - more like different views/perspectives.
  • Will - need a good graphics designer. Like the oatmeal guy.

simplified structure of the internet

"Map of the internet"

  • physical model
  • billing model
  • logical model

at each layer introduce the metaphor

leave out bits that are not absolutely necessary

IX Maps

Drill down from infographic

Push media through trusted channels like business associations


  • Here's how to make an internet
  • Here's how to become an ISP
  • Staff of the CRTC
  • Start a a telecom?

CRTC maybe more like CIRA with public elections

  • Kris points out widely different privacy laws apply if Canadian email goes through US states - patriot act. IX Maps U of Toronto - uses traceroute. Identifies big carrier hotels throughout Canada. Documentary evidence showing NSA is listening to all of these. Eschelon, Carnivore, and Warrantless Wiretapping. Andrew Clemet and Nancy Peterson project.

  •  ? how much to build a new internet? Legal issues preclude some alternatives. Incumbents and small guys have to follow same rules. Wimax though - regulated or not? Shouldn't it be based on the scope of the ISP e.g. just Victoria. Must be national no matter what. One company is trying to do it. Buildings, yes; home users, no. Reason is you need a billion dollars.
  • anyone try to purchase a DryPair - copper with no service on it. Can put your own DSL on it. Can get to a PoP directly and pay a reasonable rate there. But no longer possible to buy the drypair for any reasonable rate.
  • Gateway access (Gateway Access Services) goes back to problem of no one can really compete with Bell. So gov't requires Bell to resell their service. Eg techsavvy GAS Gateway Access Service. Resellers. So, reviewing hat CRTC decision. Not about UBB in general. Probably won't affect us in B.C. Is a very political issue now. Retail vs Wholesale. Regulation is allowing the Wholesalers to turn into Retailers says Liam. Competitive ISPs are now just affiliate marketers.
  • Will: set up for his parents in Comox (where the ISPs said they would not provide coverage) a rocket stick with $100 network gear (and valuable expert knowledge of network engineering) to prevent malware from suddenly causing their usage to go over the 6G Rogers cap and causing his folks to have a crazy bill of thousands of dollars. Rogers provides nothing to measure your bandwidth nor limit it so it can't go over the cap. Neighbors have satellite internet instead, but this is super expensive.


American national ID

(discussion of this last item is in follow-on below)

Makerspace updates[edit]

  • got our laser cutter running!
    • CO2 laser. Has a viewing window with right color to block the beam. Tyler R. waxed orgasmic about the laser cutter. Chassis is metal - stops the beam.
    • World divides into two - things that can fit into the lc and things that cannot.
  • TylerR is working on the electrical so the woodshop is down until Thurs or Fri
  • Welder is up and running
  • there's a new soldering station at the space now
  • Pricing structure - 100 full, 50 space, also a day use fee.
  • Gingerly books Will has - takes you through the industrial revolution - caused makerspace to go down the path of getting the forge. Now have a stick welder. Wants an oxyacetylene torch to cut his railroad tracks.
  • touch screen table
  • quad copter - search youtube for "aggressive quad copter maneuver"
  • boats in the summer
  • annual general meeting on Saturday!
 * homebrew to drink (after using the tools rather than before though, thank you!)
 * some intro to welding mini-classes
 * some quick intro to the laser cutter demos
 * a few awards to hand out
 * talk about projects to make for the makerfaire
 * noon on Saturday, directions on makerspace.ca
 * no drop in fee on Saturday, so come play with us!

Aggressive Maneuvers for Autonomous Quadrotor Flight

Internet IDs in the US, Canada as follow-on[edit]

  • Obama pushes for internet ids
  • Could be Single sign on for gov't sites. Likely not go further.
  • Some members think it will be extended across the country. fb connect is high up the food chain in those discussions. Some opposes the idea but think has so much weight that it will happen.
  • Others say not a chance in hell. Not enough technical know-how in the relevant gov't agencies, Liberty alliance, anti "mark of the beast" folks wouldn't let it go through.
  • Wired PoP can already track users adequately; WiFi 3G WiMax is where the providers and governments would like more control.
  • Trying to enact a law must sign on with an ID authenticated by the gov't.
  • Electronic password driver's license for the internet. Login credentials for foreign nationals. Set up in Italy now.
  • ICOW involved in futures standards setting. Will start pushing out online identities standards.
  • Push for standardized electronic ID signs you on through Eurpoean internet. Spanish system baseline. Ported into Italy. ICOW set up so that stdds set up in Spain drawn up in Europe then pushed out worldwide. But not equal US standards. Obama handing commerce dept authority to create online id for US Trusted IDs in cyberspace.
  • Trusted digital identities.
  • Spin is SingleSignOn to save the hassle of having to learn lots of passwords. Is really 3G - barrier to wifi guys. Satisfies homeland security and carriers, but screws everyone else.

Project discussion[edit]

30 minutes from each meeting (8-8:30?) allocated to a project of some kind. It can be a one night only thing, or perhaps a project that escalates over a few sessions. Some ideas:

  • 4 week learn basic French
  • 4 week learn to solder -> actually solder a kit together
  • Programming intro
  • Ham radio course

Ideas for projects time[edit]

  • pick monthly themes and develop 4 session, each 30 to 40 minutes, one session per meeting.
  • video clips of each session
  • crossover with Maker Space or with Wayward school from Awesome Shit Club.


Captive portal for mesh mesh


All the crypto you need to know